Register

Sign In

Login with facebook

How do I know if it's safe?

useravatar
SLE Photography
Offline
Photographer
Arnold, Maryland
Site Host
2547 Posts

Top How do I know if it's safe?

A model contacted us via the Helpdesk with this question:

I was talking to a photographer on the site and wondered how do I know if it's safe to go to his home? he has a small studio there he said but I want to make sure it's not some creep lol

For various reasons, I felt it would be better to respond to this in a public forum & let different people provide feedback.  I'm pointing the model here, it's her choice as to whether or not she wants to reveal herself.

My personal response (and this's me speaking as an individual, not as a rep for Model Insider) is that checking references, getting the photographer's info, letting people know where you are, and having a check-in call are the best ways to go.  The whole process needed to do this can be confusing for new models, so we've published a few articles here on MI to help explain it:
http://www.modelinsider.com/content/articles/safety and http://www.modelinsider.com/content/art … ediligence
By and large the advice there will take care of 99.9% of the problems a model's likely to encounter.

What other advice do folks have?  smile

Please do not turn this in to an "escort thread."  If you want to recommend an escort, that's fine.  Please do NOT embellish such recommendations with language like "no PROFESSIONAL has a problem with it" or "if a photographer won't let you bring one JUST SAY NO," and spare us any rants about "OMG RAPISTS AND KILLERS EVERYWHERE.  Off topic rants on either side of the subject will be ejected to their own thread.

I am a Model Insider site admin, please feel free to PM me with any site related issues, or for faster response contact our team via the Helpdesk

James Glendinning / SilverLight Esoterica Photography / SLE Photography

useravatar
Angele Fonce
Offline
Female Model
Dayton, Ohio
28 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Somethings you can do other than check references is let someone know where you are and how long you plan to be. You can also do a mid shoot call to check in with someone. Always trust your instinct and make sure you have a clear understanding of the shoot.

useravatar
Weigold Photography
Offline
Photographer
Middletown, Ohio
102 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

As others have said, check references.  In particular, talk to people he's shot with regardless of who he gives you for a reference.   Look for credits on the images in his portfolio and send the model a message and ask.

From a purely personal standpoint, I don't think I'd go to a photographer's home (or in my case a model's home) to shoot unless I'd at least met with them ahead of time someplace public for a meeting.   A preliminary meeting over coffee at Starbucks is an awesome way to assess the situation.   If after such a meeting, I was still unsure, I'd either call it off, or insist on a location shoot, again, someplace public.

I do understand the "creep" factor, but be sure to make an objective judgment.  Many photographers shoot out of their homes, some professionally, and not every one has the luxury of a studio.

Steve Weigold, Weigold Photography
http://www.weigoldphotography.com

useravatar
Curtis Wood
Offline
Photographer
Logan, Utah
1631 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

-I have to agree both James and Angele with the thoughts on references.

-If there are others that have shot with a particular photographer it is best to get their input. If questionable or disturbing comments are received form the references, it would be best to avoid the any kind of shoot situation involving intimate shooting situations ie:homes, remote locations etc without others during the shoot (call them escorts if you like).

-As Angele says too. Above all, if you feel uncomfortable, trust your feelings on an individual or situation.

Super calloused Fragile mystic Hexed by halitosis
Mary Poppins, I ain't!

TeamInsider member - PM me if you have any questions or visit us in the chat.

useravatar
Gary M Knotts
Offline
Photographer
Greensboro, North Carolina
152 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

One resource that i have told several models and photogs about is to use the public records system that nearly every state has in place,(example:North Carolina Dept of Corrections Offender search)and other sites,It doesn't hurt to be sure of who your shooting with.Just enter a name,race and male or female and you should get back results.
As someone who works with the law enforcement within our state,and having seen what people are capable of,as has been stated above,follow your instincts,If you feel creeped out,then don't shoot with the person.Better safe than sorry.
Also,try putting the name in gooogle,you might be surprised at what pops up...or doesnt.
just my $0.01

useravatar
gpmcguire
Offline
Photographer
Brooklyn, New York
741 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

just to add to what everyone else has said check references.
Curt and I were having a discussion of sorts on this matter of who knows who in the internet modeling world. In real life, there is the six degrees of separation between any two people, in the internet modeling world there is probably a lot less degrees. I would gather that if the model has been shooting for awhile then someone they know and trust knows the photographer.

If the model is a newbie then make sure they go over with the photographer what is to be shot -- what looks, what wardrobe, the purpose of the shoot  -- all before the shoot takes place.

useravatar
Emeritus
Offline
Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada
Lounge Host
1173 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Concerns about safety tend to be overblown.  I don't mean to suggest models should be absolutely oblivious to concerns, or should not act prudently, but it's quite rare for anyone working with a real photographer to have much of a problem.  The worst that is likely to happen is that you won't get along, or you are made to feel uncomfortable, and in that case, just end the session and leave.

Let me add another thought:  there is an old saying, "rank has its privileges".

What that means is that if you see a photographer's portfolio, it's been on the site for a long time and has lots of absolutely excellent pictures of many models - there is very little chance, nearly none, of you having a severe problem.  For all the distance we cover (essentially worldwide) this is still a relatively small community, and if someone has been in it for very long, worked with lots of people, word gets around.

I don't mean to suggest that new photographers are dangerous (see the first paragraph), but the danger, such as it is, goes down precipitously with skill and time on these sites.  It seems prudent to devote more effort to "checking references" or whatever techniques you choose on the photographers who are lesser known.

useravatar
Dare2 be Photography
Offline
Photographer
Wenatchee, Washington
239 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

There are several things that  will  give you added  confidence  that things are  lagit
when you email them try to see how  honest or candid they are,  they might be evasive when it comes to cantent  prefering to discus that in person so they can explain clearly and not have the model jump to conclusions.

you can have the initial meeting in a public place  and bring a friend  or husband  though  it can be a bit awkward discusing themes with nude content  you never know if there will be drama  lagit photographers wont hide in the shadows as long as the model is open minded and objective.

you can allways ask or say that you want a an excourt present 


if you do decide to go on location arrange to call someone occasionally during the shoot  with gwith some code words, instruct the person your calling to not make any declarity statements in case  it does happen to be a distress call

a lagit photographer will offer security options 
be open with the photographer if something is unfomfortable  say so.

also check references especially ones not related to photography 
I believe if you keep youe eyes open and take a few precautions its very unlikely you will get into a bad situation.

useravatar
Dare2 be Photography
Offline
Photographer
Wenatchee, Washington
239 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

""Concerns about safety tend to be overblown.  I don't mean to suggest models should be absolutely oblivious to concerns, or should not act prudently""

I tend to agree here   I talked to a woman that clerks are a truck stop I frequently have coffe at. ive seen her occasionally but we had never really talked.  I mentioned I was a photographer and casually asked if she ever thought about modeling, I asked her to think about it and went on my way.  later I heard  she was uncomfortable or freeked  at my query which suprises me.  later  I go in and see her and  offer an apology for making her feel uncomfortable and if she didnt want to model for me that there were no hard feelings and i would not bother her again, I took the opertunity to explain that I allways discuss with a model what their comfort level is  as some models are consurvative and others are more adventurous.  she seemed in good spirits, I didnt ask if she had changed her mind  and at this point  she is in the "not interested" column.
I think she jumped to conclusions  either for lack of info  or bad info its especially tough when the model wont allow you a chance to explain  and they prejudge that you want to only take trashy porn pictures of them.

useravatar
Digital Charisma Photography
Offline
Photographer
Saint Cloud, Florida
1 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

James, thank you for posting this important Topic. I can't stress enough how important it is for a Model to do her "homework" prior to booking a shoot. It's also great to see all the added threads from other members, go MI Team!  big_smile

useravatar
Rachel Jay
Offline
Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Site Host
404 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

I always recommend checking references, but I also strongly recommend finding a mentor in the area that a model (though this works for photographers too) can contact when an opportunity arises.  Sometimes, that model might not have shot with that photographer, but may still have heard stories (or in some cases, have verifiable evidence to not shoot with the person).  2 examples.

1. A couple years ago, a model I had met was traveling to my area and looking to shoot with someone.  He didn't have very many references despite him saying he'd been shooting over 30 years, and his MM profile was rather new.  She dropped me a line with a link to his profile.  It turned out to be Bob Kozel, who was in the process of being investigated on various counts of possession of child pornography.  His profile was new (and under an unrelated name) because when he'd been arrested prior that year, I had worked with MM to get 2 of his profiles shut down.  He'd gotten in under the gatekeeper radar, and under mine.  I provided the traveling model with the info I had, including case numbers, and told her to not shoot with him.  I then let MM know and had that profile removed as well.  Mr. Kozel is now in jail.  There was a thread about it all here: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=541998

2. About 3.5 years ago I had planned to work with a local photographer and another model.  Our planned theme was angel and devil.  Prior to the shoot, he and I went to look at a costume shop to rent costumes.  Not only were we not on the same page for wardrobe, but we weren't even in the same book, which normally would be fine--we'd just compromise--but he attempted 3 times during our trip to the shop to talk me into shooting nude or topless (which I don't do).  The other model and I ended up mututally cancelling the shoot.  Fast forward to 2 years ago, when a friend of mine shot with him.  He slapped her ass, kissed her boob, and called her a fat cow during their shoot.  Someone else I know shot with him and everything was fine.  But a couple months ago, I talked with a reputable local model and, it turns out, during their second shoot, he took it upon himself to help her perk up her nipples.  With his mouth.  Now, if someone asks me about him, I'm going to direct them to both my friend, and this other model, for their stories.

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
Feel free to ask me questions.

useravatar
Rachel Jay
Offline
Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Site Host
404 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Oh, I also encourage models to not put too much weight on where the photographer's studio is.  A rented space turned into a studio doesn't make someone a professional.  It just makes them someone who has the income to spend on renting space.  Many photographers have home studios, and many of them are quite professional (at least in how they act). 

I would much rather work with someone who acts professionally out of their home, than work with an unprofessional douche out of a storefront studio.

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
Feel free to ask me questions.

useravatar
SLE Photography
Offline
Photographer
Arnold, Maryland
Site Host
2547 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Rachel Jay wrote:

Oh, I also encourage models to not put too much weight on where the photographer's studio is.  A rented space turned into a studio doesn't make someone a professional.  It just makes them someone who has the income to spend on renting space.  Many photographers have home studios, and many of them are quite professional (at least in how they act). 

I would much rather work with someone who acts professionally out of their home, than work with an unprofessional douche out of a storefront studio.

Yup.  London Andrews crashed here this weekend, and I was showing her the basement we're renovating.  We actually went downstairs so she could see my wine collection, and the first thing she said was "OMG you could make this in to a totally amazing studio!"  We have a 3 story house, the basement has an adjacent bathroom & its own entrance.  I can provide impeccable references from a number of models who've shot with me & stayed with me in homes in 2 states, including this one.  I have a HUGE space here where I can build a studio, so why not do that rather than spending all sorts of money to rent a space?

I am a Model Insider site admin, please feel free to PM me with any site related issues, or for faster response contact our team via the Helpdesk

James Glendinning / SilverLight Esoterica Photography / SLE Photography

useravatar
John Rayner
Offline
Photographer
Rapid City, South Dakota
1325 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Rachel Jay wrote:

I always recommend checking references, but I also strongly recommend finding a mentor in the area that a model (though this works for photographers too) can contact when an opportunity arises.  Sometimes, that model might not have shot with that photographer, but may still have heard stories (or in some cases, have verifiable evidence to not shoot with the person). 

I agree in part with what you say Rachel. It all depends on the Mentor. Some folks are vintictive and will lead folks astray. Others can exagerate until it is tough to believe them. Both male and female. A mentor who is actually looking out for a persons well being is what is needed, not someone who has ulterior motives. Hearing something about someone from a friend of someone is heresy and not admissable in court. Don't convict a team member on heresy. Talk to the actual witness/victim before you convict.

Your best friend can shaft you as much as a total stranger. So weigh anything someone tells you with a grain of salt. If they accuse someone of criminal behavior, ask for the case number. Innocent acts can sometimes be misconstrued. For example, if a model was posing on a ladder and started to fall, I would have to let her fall. If I caught her I would be touching a model, if I threw myself on the ground to break her fall again I would be touching a model and it would reflect poorly on me and my reputation. Personally, I would do that later and reputation be danged. I know a very fine photographer who suffered from catching a falling model.

useravatar
Peter Flanagan
Offline
Photographer
Downers Grove, Illinois
238 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Behaviorists tell us that rational people exhibit behaviors that they believe will result in soon, certain and positive outcomes.  At the same time, rational people tend to avoid behaviors that they suspect will result in soon, certain and negative outcomes.

That being said, I tend to look at this question on the flip side.  Inviting any stranger into one's home, for whatever reason, is a behavior that presents a degree of risk.  The scenario of a male photographer inviting a female subject into his home for a shoot presents a high degree of risk to the photographer.  Typically the photographer is older, more well off, has a reputation to uphold.  In other words, a sitting duck for all sorts of nefarious intents on the part of the "model."  We must assume that the photographer understands these risks, yet is willing to bear them in order to capture images that certainly could be captured under circumstances that do not carry the same level of risk.  Given that, if I were a female model, I would be somewhat wary of a person who would be willing to bear the risks that I, as a stranger, pose to him just so he could take my picture.

Yes, I do occasionally shoot models in my place.  But they are always people I have shot on many other occasions outside my home.  I don't invite them here to shoot until I trust them at least as much as I trust people I invite over for parties or other social events.

Before all the howls start, let me say that I do understand that there are plenty of upstanding professionals who shoot out of home studios.  Over the years I have come to know plenty of them.  The vast majority of them had their studios set apart, outside the living quarters.  Most had Yellow Pages ads and/or some other means of establishing at least some modicum of legitimacy. 

I guess the bottom line is this, if I were a female model I would not shoot in a photographer's home unless he, at a minimum, met the test in the paragraph above.  I certainly would shy away from shooting in the living space of a stranger and would never shoot in a photographer's bedroom, regardless of how well I knew him.

useravatar
Rachel Jay
Offline
Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Site Host
404 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Peter Flanagan wrote:

I guess the bottom line is this, if I were a female model I would not shoot in a photographer's home unless he, at a minimum, met the test in the paragraph above.  I certainly would shy away from shooting in the living space of a stranger and would never shoot in a photographer's bedroom, regardless of how well I knew him.

Some of the most professional people I've worked with shot out of their homes.  A close second to that is the folks who have no studios at all, and shoot only on location. 

However, I (this should also be of note to someone who's looking for safety advice) always do the following prior to a shoot:
1. I write or print out 2 sets of directions, and include the photographers name, MM#, email address and phone.  One set comes with me, one stays home, on my laptop, where I often leave the PM or photographer's MM page open.  I started doing this when I had a rather far drive and needed to be "on call" in case something happened to my grandpa (he was ill at the time, and the photographer knew in advance what was going on).  It made the hubs feel better, so I continued to do it. 
2. I drop the photographer a phone call or text when I am on my way.  Lets him know when to expect me.
3. I drop hubs a phone call or text when I arrive.  Lets him know I arrived safe.
4. At some point during the shoot (between sets usually) I drop hubs a text, letting him know timing is on track and when I expect to leave.  Lets him know I'm still safe.  If it's a full day thing, I do this 2x.
5. When I leave the shoot, after I make sure I have everything I brought, I drop hubs a call, letting him know I'm on my way.  In some rare cases, I've had photographers request a call or text when I get home, so they know I've made it safe (usually in inclement weather, or in the case of a late shoot and a long drive home).

I've not had any issues with this system, and have only walked out of one shoot ever because I felt uncomfortable.  It was my first shoot ever, and the photographer wouldn't take "I'm not comfortable with that" and "I don't want to do that" as an answer to "let's get you into something sexier" ("something sexier" being his ex-girlfriends used lingerie, to boot).

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
Feel free to ask me questions.

useravatar
Rachel Jay
Offline
Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Site Host
404 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

John Rayner wrote:

I agree in part with what you say Rachel. It all depends on the Mentor. Some folks are vintictive and will lead folks astray. Others can exagerate until it is tough to believe them. Both male and female. A mentor who is actually looking out for a persons well being is what is needed, not someone who has ulterior motives. Hearing something about someone from a friend of someone is heresy and not admissable in court. Don't convict a team member on heresy. Talk to the actual witness/victim before you convict.

That's true, which is why, in the case of the nipple fluffer, I refer people who ask me about him to the people who told me their experiences.  They've both agreed I can do this.

John Rayner wrote:

Your best friend can shaft you as much as a total stranger. So weigh anything someone tells you with a grain of salt. If they accuse someone of criminal behavior, ask for the case number. Innocent acts can sometimes be misconstrued. For example, if a model was posing on a ladder and started to fall, I would have to let her fall. If I caught her I would be touching a model, if I threw myself on the ground to break her fall again I would be touching a model and it would reflect poorly on me and my reputation. Personally, I would do that later and reputation be danged. I know a very fine photographer who suffered from catching a falling model.

That's unfortunate, yet something that doesn't surprise me.  So many people take things differently... what might be OK to one model (say, reaching in to brush hair behind the shoulders) might make another scream "ZOMG SEXUAL HARASSMENT!!"

Look at the model on MM who was saying that a photographer who "kept calling the model stuff like 'sex kitten' and saying things along the lines of 'show me those sexy sad eyes' and 'let me take some photos of your sexy bum'" was a creep and a perv.  Yet it was a glamour shoot she was the escort at, and her friend seemingly was fine with everything until later.  (The thread, which has the OP quoted a couple posts in, thankfully: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=672949)  I'm still convinced it was the OP of that thread that planted it in the new model's head that the photographer was a sleeze, but anyway... my suggestion in that thread was for the OP to step away from her friend's modeling 'career' and suggest that her friend find a mentor who's not emotionally invested.

I mean, yea, I guess no matter what there will always be people who have agendas.  But at the same time, a new model can find more than one mentor, and talk to (and learn from) multiple people all at the same time.

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
Feel free to ask me questions.

useravatar
Peter Flanagan
Offline
Photographer
Downers Grove, Illinois
238 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Rachel Jay wrote:

Peter Flanagan wrote:

I guess the bottom line is this, if I were a female model I would not shoot in a photographer's home unless he, at a minimum, met the test in the paragraph above.  I certainly would shy away from shooting in the living space of a stranger and would never shoot in a photographer's bedroom, regardless of how well I knew him.

Some of the most professional people I've worked with shot out of their homes.  A close second to that is the folks who have no studios at all, and shoot only on location. 


"...test in the paragraph above" is the operative phrase here.  I am less concerned by a photographer who is somewhat established who works out of a home studio than I am by a guy who is not well established working out of his home - especially if he utilizes the living quarters as a studio as opposed to a separate studio space located on/in the same premises.

useravatar
Dare2 be Photography
Offline
Photographer
Wenatchee, Washington
239 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

The photographer/model thing  can get very complicated  ive met several different types of models in my  search for subjects.
basicly im poor(fixed income)  I have enough equipment to begin doing some shoots (camera, tripod, lights, some backgrounds)
im 46  and a bit over weight  and maybe not the handsomest guy on the block 
I would like to have up to classical nudes as part of my work (think playboy) or some partial or implied

I occasionally pell people I am a photographer and ask them is they might be open to modeling for me  if they reply  not interested i thank them and move on. occasionally i get or hear about a much more extreem responce like I asked them to shoot a gangbang or something   sometimes I cant even talk with them to even explain what really want to acomplish
I think some people are prudish and assume everything is about trashy pornographic  pictures.
when i talk with a perspective model  I allways try to meet them in a comfortable public location  and will go over alot of detail about their comfort level  as well as physical, visual,verbal interaction  and also write down an outline of the content of the shoot.  I don't have my own studio or shooting location so I usually sugest to shoot at the models home or on location  sometime after the initial meeting possibly the same day I visit the home to scout out shooting locations and go through the modes sugestions and wardrobe  and outline a shooting script.
I try to be as open an honest as I can.  if a model does not want to do full nudity or even partial  its ok as long as I beleve it wasnt just a global snap decision  its a goal for me not a requirement.
I do want the person to be serious and objective and and chalange their boundries  but I don't want them leaving the shoot with a negative experience  its another reason I tell the models that  we will discuss what pictures from the shoot are made public  I want models to feel confident that I won't make them look bad or cause drama with friends or family.

useravatar
Emeritus
Offline
Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada
Lounge Host
1173 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Peter Flanagan wrote:


Before all the howls start, let me say that I do understand that there are plenty of upstanding professionals who shoot out of home studios.  Over the years I have come to know plenty of them.  The vast majority of them had their studios set apart, outside the living quarters.  Most had Yellow Pages ads and/or some other means of establishing at least some modicum of legitimacy. 

I guess the bottom line is this, if I were a female model I would not shoot in a photographer's home unless he, at a minimum, met the test in the paragraph above.  I certainly would shy away from shooting in the living space of a stranger and would never shoot in a photographer's bedroom, regardless of how well I knew him.

Peter Flanagan wrote:


"...test in the paragraph above" is the operative phrase here.  I am less concerned by a photographer who is somewhat established who works out of a home studio than I am by a guy who is not well established working out of his home - especially if he utilizes the living quarters as a studio as opposed to a separate studio space located on/in the same premises.

I'd like to hear a more complete description of what you mean by "established", and how a model can tell if a photographer is "established".  So far you have only suggested one indicator:  a yellow pages ad.

A LOT of excellent, reputable photographers are not in business, and so do not do the things that businesses do - like yellow pages advertising.  That doesn't make them any more dangerous or suspect than anyone else, as near as I can tell.  So what does "established" mean?

useravatar
Rachel Jay
Offline
Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Site Host
404 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Peter Flanagan wrote:

"...test in the paragraph above" is the operative phrase here.  I am less concerned by a photographer who is somewhat established who works out of a home studio than I am by a guy who is not well established working out of his home - especially if he utilizes the living quarters as a studio as opposed to a separate studio space located on/in the same premises.

Many of the photographers (that I've worked with) who work out of their homes have just MM pages, no websites, and certainly no Yellow Pages ad.  Spare 4 that I can think of off the top of my head who have a website.

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
Feel free to ask me questions.

useravatar
Dare2 be Photography
Offline
Photographer
Wenatchee, Washington
239 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

I have noticed that there are at least three distinct types of people/ women that are open to modeling
1.  the aspiring model/actress,entertainer
these models mainly go for a more professional approach  they model for experience and for content for portfolios these type of models tend to be confident and reliable

2.  the curious adventurer
these ladies are wanting to try something new or they want to do a shoot for the beautiful pictures and self esteem boost.
many are shy and cautious and a more mentoring type slow and casual approach  is best with lots of positive feedback they can be a bit flighty and unreliable

3. the thrill seeker, voyure, exhibitionist these ladies  love being in front of the camera and having someone take their picture. they are also more adventurous or open to more edgy or daring themes  they are also most likely open to doing revealing work  the approach with the thrill seeker can range  from serious to down right dirty or raunchy  depending on the models personality and the feedback they want also they may want or even ask for interactive contact, descriptive verbal  and also prefer frequent or even continuous eye contact with  the photographer and/or crew (as opposed to turning away or leaving the room to change wardrobe) that is why is good to  take the time to be very clear and detailed in your initial meeting what the model wants or expects. the advantage of a thrill seeker is their adventurous personality it makes it much easier to do get the shots your after with little difficulties with modesty or self contiousness they might not even need a warm up to get nude or even want ro do out door shoots but the down side is that they can be frequently unreliable and forget about shoots or become dissinterested or impatient.

some photographers on here have a total hands-off policy while it is good to keep it to a minimum and default on the consurvative side I dont believe its completely necessary  and I simply dont have access to a second person unless  the model has an escourt that will help out. I would never do anything without the models knowlege and consent and if we arranged a no nudity shoot and the model changed her mind  we would have to make changes to the written sgreement specifying the change in intent. and it goes both ways  if the model origionally was interested in doing nudity and changed her mind  we would just have to  determine the new boundries for the shoot. its fustrating because you spend alot of time working out a shoot and what looks your going for, but it happens.

useravatar
Emeritus
Offline
Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada
Lounge Host
1173 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

brent847 wrote:

I would never do anything without the models knowlege and consent and if we arranged a no nudity shoot and the model changed her mind we would have to make changes to the written sgreement specifying the change in intent. and it goes both ways  if the model origionally was interested in doing nudity and changed her mind  we would just have to  determine the new boundries for the shoot. its fustrating because you spend alot of time working out a shoot and what looks your going for, but it happens.

You obviously do a lot more documenting and contracting for shoots than I do.  I am far, far more casual about pre-shoot agreements.  I'm not sure I understand the purpose of all this documentation, and I can't imagine that insisting on it would help you attract models.

useravatar
Rachel Jay
Offline
Female Model
Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Site Host
404 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

Emeritus wrote:

brent847 wrote:

I would never do anything without the models knowlege and consent and if we arranged a no nudity shoot and the model changed her mind we would have to make changes to the written sgreement specifying the change in intent. and it goes both ways  if the model origionally was interested in doing nudity and changed her mind  we would just have to  determine the new boundries for the shoot. its fustrating because you spend alot of time working out a shoot and what looks your going for, but it happens.

You obviously do a lot more documenting and contracting for shoots than I do.  I am far, far more casual about pre-shoot agreements.  I'm not sure I understand the purpose of all this documentation, and I can't imagine that insisting on it would help you attract models.

I tend to agree with Roger.  That much hoop-jumping prior to a shoot is a huge turnoff for a hobbyist like myself.  I'd much rather shoot with someone who has less pre-shoot paperwork, and enjoy both the shoot and the planning process.  Having to discuss/fill out/sign/re-draft paperwork prior to a shoot just makes the planning process tedious and annoying, and doesn't even make me want to shoot just thinking about it.

Rachel Jay
My Modeling Blog: Thoughts of a Hobbyist Model
My Style Blog: Suburban Style Challenge

I'm the Internet Modeling Forum Host here at MI smile
Feel free to ask me questions.

useravatar
Emeritus
Offline
Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada
Lounge Host
1173 Posts

Top Re: How do I know if it's safe?

brent847 wrote:

im no lawyer  and the model isnt signing up for the army but some amount of planning I believe would save alot of stress and headachs later on  unless you guys have  some other sugestions?  I would love to hear your ideas or input 
I mean if I was hiring a model for a particular theme or comfort level then of course that is what I would expect but its different when the model has no real legal stake in in  wether or not she shows up. you just have to go on trust and faith that we both will be professional.
I plan to just go over certain areas. 
of course there is the model release
but I also plan to  go over  the models comfort level and what she will or wont allow to be photographed. if a model is open and all ready knows than this goes quickly. with the models I will probably be working with they wont know and we will have to talk about different types of set ups  like see through (low or high) shilouette, are they ok with backs and if so how far down
or shots showing the side of the leg and hip or side breast, and are they talking about the whole breast or just the areola  and if they will do implied or near nude do they want to use a modesty cover like a paisty?

im not saying I would ask every single model all these things  just  some things that might come up.

The boundries and parameters of the shoot like do they want a "hands off" policy  or will they allow certain interacton regarding hair, wardrobe, props or pose    if they bring an escourt that is able to help out than this is also not an issue. I would never do anything without the models knowlage or consent and would allways default to a consurvative stance lol this might actually anoy some models that are very comfortable modeling because all the caution would slow a shoot. like if I turned away or left the room every time a model  made adjustments or changed wardrobes.

I would also go over  themes that they might be interested in doing  wether its western or bikini or lingere, nastalga, pinup ect.  I would actually  outline a shooting script after I visit the persons house and we see what they have to work with as far as clothes or props. Part of the reson for this is so you dont have "destroyed hair" themes mixed in with  fancy hair themes.

I dont want to end up wasting alot of time because a model didnt realize that  a bikini or  sheet or bathtub were part of a shoot  and I definatly dont like suprising a model with an "oh by the way can you remove your top"

Brent, the issue raised is that you seem to feel the need to put all this in a formal,written agreement.  Even raising the kinds of issues as specifically as you do pre-shoot, let alone in some kind of quasi-contract, seems to me to risk  being thought kind of creepy.  I really think you need to consider more carefully the way you approach models.

Sure, unwelcome surprises are bad.  But covering all these contingencies in advance is, it seems to me, a considerable over-abundance of caution.